So. Many would-be writers of the original Big Bang Challenge indicated in our follow-up poll that they wished they'd had more support from this community throughout the process. Your mods discussed how exactly that could be accomplished and decided that, during the next month or so, we could post some open discussion topics on how you all are envisioning various aspects of the wizarding world, post-HBP. Hopefully this will help some writers see through the fog of their own mental landscape. If you have a topic you'd like to see covered, or suggestions for how else we might support our writers, please let us know!
Topic: Hogwarts
How do you see Hogwarts in the year after Death Eaters breach the school's defenses, murdering its headmaster with the help of Hogwarts own student and staff member?
Will children return? Which parents are more likely to trust in the school ( e.g. purebloods, muggles, by house affiliation, etc.)
How is McGonagall likely to approach her new position as headmistress? What will her primary concerns be?
Will the Ministry interfere, and how?
How will Slytherin house fare, with their head of house and a popular student complicit in Dumbledore's murder? What is Slughorn's role likely to be?
…?
This community has 400 watchers, so here's your chance to contribute! Don't be shy. Who knows, your cracked-out theory might just inspire your favorite writer!
Topic: Hogwarts
How do you see Hogwarts in the year after Death Eaters breach the school's defenses, murdering its headmaster with the help of Hogwarts own student and staff member?
This community has 400 watchers, so here's your chance to contribute! Don't be shy. Who knows, your cracked-out theory might just inspire your favorite writer!
no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 09:07 pm (UTC)Draco is on the run both from the Order and the DEs to some extent, so he's not about to go back to Hogwarts-- though it could go either way-- he -could- quickly be picked up by Harry (feeling guilt or duty to Dumbledore's wishes) for protection, or it could all be smoothed over & OK with Voldemort and he could decide he could use Draco more (unlikely in canon-- but vaguely possible because Draco has proven both useful and ultimately undependable).
One of the things I'd thought about in terms of Hogwarts is that I think one or more of the Horcruxes is surely there, and they'd have to come back for it. They'd surely visit. I dunno if -Draco- would, unless offered/secured protection (and where better than at Hogwarts, still), but Harry would (and to see how things are going, though I'm not counting on any romantic scenes in canon, going by HBP).
If Hogwarts did re-open (and it surely will, even if with a skeletal staff/student body, if only to strengthen defenses), I think strengthening it would be a top priority. Not so bad as it got under Umbridge, but I think it would be much more strict (especially considering we're talking about McGonagall). She's not going to tolerate much playing-around or silly rivalries or... whatever. They might or might not cancel Quidditch for that year (I hope not, but... it's likely-- you could work around that though).
I'm thinking that since Harry would be mostly gone, Ginny would quickly rise to the 'top' of Gryffindor as she's so great with hexes & was the girfriend of The Boy Who Lived & everyone wanted her anyway. Neville and Luna (and the rest of the old DA) would probably back her up. In Slytherin, it's likely Blaise (and Theodore and Pansy) would rise to power as the new Slytherin trio :D :D :D :D :D This is my pet theory/idea. ISN'T IT PRETTY??!?!?! :D :D :D :D :D BLAISE/GINNY 4EVAH!! *coughs* Okay, I got off track....
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Topics...
~ Horcruxes (where, when, how)
~ Draco and Snape & Voldy
~ Harry post-Dumbledore
~ Role of Ginny (and things like Harry's speech about romance being off-limits, etc)
~ Harry and Snape's impact on H/D
~ Ron & Hermione (clearly Ron isn't about to become a crazed `OMG MALFOY?!' prick if they got together, since he was all 'calm down, Harry' in HBP).
no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 08:18 am (UTC)The more I think about it, though, the more likely this seems to me. I mean, getting into Hogwarts normally is hard; infiltrating Hogwarts under tightened security should have been impossible. Not to mention his mad occlumency skills. And while Draco did lose his enthusiasm pretty early on for the killing, he whooped with joy when he finally finished the cabinet. Plus, if Voldemort spares Narcissa and Lucius (although I wasn't quite clear on whether he actually intended to kill them in the first place), he'll always be able to hold the fact that he did so and that Draco failed to cast the killing curse against him. In other words, Draco would constantly be in his debt. Like I think Harry was saying at the end of the book.
Plus, I think the last time that Draco saw Harry was when Harry tried to kill him. And almost succeeded. I doubt Draco ever knew he was sorry afterwards, and even if he did, he probably didn't believe it. So, right now, in Draco's mind, not only is Harry a bigger threat than ever, Harry can still do something he can't. So if Harry does pick up Draco, it'll be with much kicking and screaming on Draco's part. And possibly a Crucio or two...
Not that I think it won't happen. H/D shipper here, after all. :D I just don't think you can necessarily discount the former possibility so easily.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 08:32 am (UTC)I dunno if Draco's capable of hating thoroughly enough to cast Crucio on Harry. Probably on Harry moreso than anyone else, but I don't know if he's -that- focused in his Harry-rage anymore. And I didn't mean to imply that he'd -want- to go with Harry's protection, far from it-- any more than I meant to imply Harry would want to give it, really (I mean, there's just the possibility he might feel guilty and/or obligated to Dumbledore).
I admit I do dislike DE!Draco so I am biased to some degree, but I just think things (in canon) are likely to be complex, with Draco moving further along his path of being accidentally/circumstantially pushed on the road to 'enlightenment' of some sort. I dunno. As far as canon, I -really- can't see him becoming some rank-and-file Death Eater -or- turning around and helping Harry (JKR said he wouldn't-- I didn't mean to imply he would, just that Harry might give him some protection). Draco went from oppressed bully to vengeful victim to failed mover-and-shaker to victim again, but I just don't see him becoming a success at evil-doing or whatever. He just won't be a -success- in canon, though in that sense it's actual a victory 'cause what he fails at is being the boy his father wanted.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 12:34 pm (UTC)However, do you think it’s possible that Voldemort would keep him alive and around, if more or less unused? In my story he does, for two reasons: a) Voldemort’s smart. He knows that even though Draco failed at killing Dumbledore, he did get the DE’s into Hogwarts, and Dumbledore alone (apparently) and unarmed. And Dumbledore did end up dead. Letting Draco off with only a bit of Crucio would send a better message to the DE’s than killing him after all he had managed to do. b) For the purpose of holding him over Narcissa and Luscious’ heads. Because with Draco still alive, instead of being alienated, as they may have been by his death (assuming Voldemort didn’t kill them too), they have extra motivation to stay loyal and do well: if they don’t Voldemort can kill Draco or send him on another suicide mission.
Does that make sense?
no subject
Date: 2005-08-29 09:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-29 12:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 04:42 pm (UTC)I don't think Draco could really cast Crucio on Harry either, but he'll definitely try. I think the fact that he tried to cast Crucio against Harry inside the SCHOOL which could have led to his expulsion, a possible stint in Azkaban, and the consequent ruination of the whole cabinet plot, shows that his emotions do still run high where Harry is concerned. Possibly, though, he now hates Voldemort even more that he does Harry, which is what I suppose might work in Harry's favor. I also think that Dumbledore kept asking Draco about his plan up on the rooftop not only to stall him and build his confidence, but in order for Harry to finally see how clever Draco actually is. I guess this might also be motivation for Harry to take him on and protect him, as well as whatever he feels he owes Dumbledore.
I don't really like the idea of DE!Draco, either, but then up until book six I wasn't sure I liked the way JKR went about Draco's characterization either. Or the remarks she made in interviews. :P I think that a lot of the reason that Draco will never be a success in either camp is because Draco has always struck me as the type of person who doesn't care about any side but his own. He'll go along with whatever you want as long as it's advantageous to him, but his real initiative only comes out when he's going after something he personally wants. Draco's biggest hang-up, though, I think, is that he's never really known what it is he wants, or has been taught, as JKR said, to suppress it under someone else's will (Lucius). Hmm...so I think you're right that failing would be his best way of actually winning out, but I don't think it'll count for much if he doesn't choose to do so.
Right. That got all rambly. Make of it what you will. ^^
no subject
Date: 2005-08-29 10:19 am (UTC)I like the idea of Dumbledore wanting Harry to see how clever Draco is-- I also really like Harry giving Draco another chance because that's what Dumbledore would've wanted in general-- it makes sense and fits the pattern of him pulling himself out of depression 'cause that's what Sirius would've wanted (ahahaha, though Sirius couldn't do it with himself, that's for sure... man, that's one mopey/dwelling bastard right there... though not entirely, of course... he also comes through when it counts, possibly -because- of all the obsessive dwelling and not moving on... hmm, I like the idea that Harry's all determined -because- he hasn't moved on from the grief, btw).
I also -love- the reminder of Draco's Crucio, 'cause yeah, that was pretty volatile and passionate and reckless and omg-easily-set-off-by-Harry of him, wasn't it. Aww, I feel all reassured & inspired by that :D
I don't know about Draco not caring about any side but his own, though I agree he doesn't know what he wants, and possibly that's a result of being a submissive/extroverted type and caring about his allegiances to other people (like his dad); it's Harry who's the independent, reckless, lone-wolf one. Draco's the one who followed Umbridge, repeated his father's lines about Hagrid and Mudbloods, kissed up to Snape, and had a helpless sort of respect for Dumbledore in spite of himself. That boy listens to authority. However, he also does go after what he wants as best he can 'cause he can't help himself, he's a passionate impulsive guy, and in this sense I could see a potential to wind up something like Snape, though more or less a free agent (Snape's pretty trapped by his own choices and the spying/double-crossing/not being trusted by anyone but Dumbledore, actually, and definitely not doing what he wants), some time in the far future that isn't his next year of life~:) I don't think, in other words, that he's been unnaturally 'suppressed' into being a Daddy's boy, y'know? That kind of sounds like trying to whitewash his character or make things easier... and I don't necessarily see any canon evidence for it, either. I think he's an enthusiastic enough sheeplike follower. (Being mean to Draco is my hobby, btw.)
I don't think it'll count for much if he doesn't choose to do so
...That... yeah. You're right... and in my novella (written pre-HBP but I'm trying to make it compatible) he does sort of just wind up alive even though he's a DE through no great effort of his own... he doesn't choose so much as wind up trapped by his delusions of choice. But it's a darkfic in many ways-- in canon-extrapolative fic & in canon, it is pretty important that he choose, yes. He came close to it in HBP, even, and I have high hopes he'll actually do it in book 7. Perhaps going against the possible mercy Voldy might show him & trying something riskier with either Snape or Harry's plan in mind would be his chance.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 05:03 am (UTC)Or he could just find Harry and make him forget all about Ginny. Somehow I could see that working for me, too....:D
And yeah, Sirius always seemed like that poor guy left with nothing and forced to cling onto his glory days from way back in high school. And while it made him reckless, yeah, it's sweet to think he was so determined because of what happened to his friends. Harry, too, my God, that last scene with Dumbledore and the pensieve, where Harry remembers all the people he's loved who've paved the way for him and that's why he's got to go on and fight Voldemort? I got chills when I read it, and I still get them just thinking about it. You're right, it's such a beautiful idea that it's love that drives Harry and makes him fight so hard. *wibbles*
Draco...man, I just love talking about him. He's so complex, isn't he? I think you're right in that he follows people, but only until something better comes along, and I think the enthusiasm is all just an act
like his hatred for Harry. Like JKR said, he's used to suppressing his true feelings. Umbridge gave him power and he took it...then lit up immediately when (I don't have the book with me, so I can't remember exactly what it was) Hermione mentioned a way for him to obtain power over Umbridge. He sucked up to Snape, yeah...until Voldemort came along and gave him a chance for greater glory (remember the conversation Harry overhead outside of the party?). He repeated his father's dogma ad-nauseam...then used a Mudblood's idea in his own plans. The thing about Draco is, he uses people to his own advantage (I feel bad for poor underappreciated Pansy, btw :() until they're no longer usable and he feels like he can dispose of them. I think he's more of a leader than you're giving him credit for, too, it's just gotta be something he's passionate about. Like...Harry. Who led a plan to embarrass him on the quidditch pitch by dressing up as a Dementor? Who rallied the school against him in book 4 by making buttons? Who not only wrote a song against Harry's best friend, but then led all of Slytherin in singing it? Who went against his father's own advice in hating Harry so much in the first place? Heck, the kid is clearly a leader in his own house, Dumbledore made him prefect. The efforts against Harry are still reactionary and therefore follower behavior, but even so, they show that Draco thinks like a leader. I think Draco totally has it in him to be a man and be his own free agent, he just doesn't have the confidence to try it. And that's also why Dumbledore made him go through the elements of his plan up on the rooftop, then practically congratulated him on succeeding and succeeding alone. Whoa...maybe that's why he made him prefect, too. He knows he just needs the confidence....dude. I mean, they all sorta wondered why he picked Malfoy, and it's not like Lucius could have bribed him. Hmmmm....maybe Dumble paid more attention the the Slyths than I thought.....*ponders*no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 05:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 06:47 am (UTC)And thanks! :>
no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 06:44 am (UTC)I can't concede about his enthusiasm being "all just an act" because that reminds me of this one girl at the Draco panel at Nimbus who asked me & the other panelists whether we thought Draco was secretly sweet and kind and was merely acting like he hated Mudbloods 'cause he father was forcing him to under threat of physical harm o_0 o_0 I mean, in that case, there's actual canon where Lucius is like 'ease up on those confrontations with Potter, act like you like him' in CoS, and Draco can't act. He can compartmentalize, but then it comes crashing about his ears-- he can't keep it up about Potter, his father, Ron, Hermione-- whatever matters to him, he can't hide it. He avoided Potter in HBP, but his every actual confrontation was actually still charged and intense, and you made the point about the Crucio yourself. So... any argument that depends on Draco being a master pretender just falls flat for me. He can try, but his follow-through is laughable (though if it wasn't, he'd be a much bigger asshole than he is).
I'm thinking of the scene with Dumbledore, and how obvious Draco was (well, Draco's always obvious, but especially so). How he was needing that reassurance of yes, he did well, and how... innocent he was, just as Dumbledore knew. Poor boy can't manipulate his way out of a paper bag, though I acknowledge he's got leadership skillz with the other Slytherins (the ones who're not too smart to join him, at least, like Blaise & Theo). So yeah, he rallies them by being entertaining and vivacious, etc, but when push comes to shove, in sixth year, he thinks he can't even trust Crabbe & Goyle to tell them why they're turning into girls.
Like, I can one day see Draco developing into someone who uses people, but for now, people use -him-. Sure, he rebelled against Snape, because he wanted his chance to prove himself, his moment in the limelight, but who do you think he wanted to prove himself to? Snape and his father and Potter, I'd bet.
Sure, he wasn't 'serious' about following Umbridge, she was just an authority figure he could allign himself with-- but that point was just that he alligns himself with authority rather than 'using' it in the sense of actively manipulating it-- he's more like a parasite, something that subsists upon what it uses, I guess, than a virus, something that actively changes what it uses. So I wasn't saying he's not a user, but rather that I just don't see that in a dominant, manipulative sense of him being in control of the situation in any way, really. In HBP especially, he was way out of control, even if he succeeded at his more academic task-- he still failed at the greater test of (evil) character-- not that not being able to kill Dumbledore's a failure, I'm just saying this purely in his pov in terms of what he'd have -wanted-.
I also think that what you've just described about him repeating dogma and then using a Mudblood's idea-- that's not really a mercenary approach so much as it's hypocrisy. He's deluded, no question about it, but he's not aware he's deluded by any evidence I've seen, which makes him hypocritical rather than independent.
Anyway, I did admit he has it in him to be a free agent, just... I don't think I see it happening very soon or immediately. He's got most of his growing up still left to do first, and people don't just do that in a few months or even a year. As for being Prefect, it being Dumbledore, I suspect it's because he thinks Draco's got the most, er, potential 'heart' or goodness of any of the Slyths, since that's what Dumbledore cared about.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-06 12:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 10:01 pm (UTC)However, if it were to open, it'd be sparse. Parents are too scared to send their kids in. And I think the Ministry might interfere just for that.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-02 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 10:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 10:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 12:32 am (UTC)It's no longer the safehaven people thought it was, mainly through the (in)actions of the person who wanted it to be one. I honestly can't see it opening unless there's lots of kids who want to go back.
Will children return?
I can see some of them going back if it's open.
Which parents are more likely to trust in the school ( e.g. purebloods, muggles, by house affiliation, etc.)
Not as many as once did.
How is McGonagall likely to approach her new position as headmistress?
Severely and with much tartan.
Will the Ministry interfere, and how?
Probably. The ministry wants to look like it's doing something at the very least. The safety of children (whilst often ignored previously in the Wizarding World) is always an excellent PR trope for such institutions. If it opens, there's probably going to be more Aurors around.
How will Slytherin house fare, with their head of house and a popular student complicit in Dumbledore's murder? What is Slughorn's role likely to be?
You know what? I can see (well, maybe I want to see) some drama involving the rest of the school turning on Slytherin moreso than ever before. That would be awesome and an excellent plot point.
Yay! Angst and drama!no subject
Date: 2005-08-31 02:21 pm (UTC)*is deeply amused*
the rest of the school turning on Slytherin moreso than ever before
This is definitely something I've been considering at length while planning my BB fic. I certainly don't think the Sorting Hat has been going on about inter-house cooperation without reason. I sort of see that after what happened to Draco - he's a fugitive, his name is no better than mud - the Slytherins could well consider the side of light as a sound strategic move rather than end up like him.
If the school does turn on Slytherin even more, I think the Gryffindors will be at the forefront of this action. I think that after what he saw on the Astronomy Tower, and the fact that he is definitely Dumbledore's man through and through, Harry may be the one to help bridge the gap. The fact that he's left school and grown up a lot in the past year may help him to have gained a certain perspective on the whole house issue. He really embraced his Slytherin side in HBP - Magpie wrote a brilliant essay on how HBP was the Slytherin book of the series - and I think that if the Slyths can offer him something he needs, or convince him they are not all evil, he may be willing to give them a chance.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-31 02:47 pm (UTC)Though I don't see Harry, Ron and Hermione returning to school, I imagine they will spend some time there during the year. They will definitely need to use the library at some point. Harry isn't, at this stage, prepared to face Voldemort imho - his DADA tutoring will have to continue, though whether this is at the school or via the Order remains to be seen. Also, there must be a Horcrux - or just a clue - hidden somewhere in the school.
McGonagall's main concerns as headmistress will be keeping the students safe. I can see her being in a situation where she wouldn't necessarily have been in favour of the school re-opening, but the students turned up anyway, and she couldn't just send them away. I can see her consulting a lot with the portraits of former headteachers, but I think her decision-making will be quite democratic - she will involve the rest of the staff in the process.
I've already said most of my piece on Slytherin above. Any Slytherins who come from families with DE links won't have much choice except to return to Hogwarts - or go on the lam - if they don't want to be recruited. If they really are genuine, they will have a horrible time convincing the rest of the school. I can see a lot of anti-Slytherin sentiment and unprovoked attacks. Slughorn is a very different head of house to Snape - Snape was obviously and passionately on the side of the Slytherins, while Slughorn is far more diplomatic; a different type of Slytherin. Based on the current canon evidence, I can't see him being a particularly effective head of house for them, but it may well be that he wants to make amends for the enormous cock-up he made with Tom Riddle. I don't have enough of a handle on Slughorn's character to really make any suggestion.
I second all the topics
contributing
Date: 2005-10-10 07:32 am (UTC)Re: contributing
Date: 2005-10-10 11:06 pm (UTC)Re: contributing
Date: 2005-10-11 04:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-19 04:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-20 02:23 am (UTC)